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 Company  > Events > Inteview with Greg Hermanovic 
  El Kabong has crafted a novel approach to live visuals - they perform 3D animation live at electronic music events in an improvised, tag-team format.

El Kabong is a group of artists who make and perform live 3D visuals to music using Touch 101. Touch 101 is a new family of software tools from Derivative Inc., who develops Touch and supports its growing community of visual artists.

This is based on an interview with Greg Hermanovic, founder of El Kabong and Derivative, conducted on April 4, 2001 at the Derivative studio in Toronto, Canada by CITY-TV's N3TV.

What is El Kabong?

I started El Kabong in 1992, doing visuals for local Tribe Magazine and Chemistry parties. I gathered an evolving group of friends and animators from Canada, the US and UK who were interested in doing visuals live in front of an audience.

How do your tag-team-style performances work?

We usually work with an arsenal of over 30 live animations per show. Kabongists who turn up at our events may bring with them new animations to try out live.

But because we are playing alongside DJs whose mixes are unpredictable, we have to decide on-the-spot which animations we will use, and who will be playing them on our two PCs, laptop and video mixer.

After a performer starts an animation, they tap in the beat to sync the visuals to the music. Then they control the animation using MIDI boxes that have 16 knobs and 16 on/off buttons. Their video is mixed with the other performer's video and then projected on screens.

Why does El Kabong do live visuals?

I wanted to perform animation live, like musicians performing. There's a great deal of spontaneity that you get when doing it live along with music.

We like to perform to electronic dance music because it is the most rapidly evolving music, and it's an abstract style that lends itself to live graphics. I wanted visuals to play a part in the music scene, and people have been looking for something expressive like this.

A side effect of using our animation software at these events is that it acid-tests the tools that end up in Hollywood making special effects in films. Club kids don't know they're seeing it first.

What software are you using and developing?

In our performances we use Touch 101, which is made by Derivative, a company that I started in 2000. Touch is a product spun-off from Houdini from Side Effects Software, a company I also co-own.

Derivative (derivativeinc.com) is releasing Touch 101 this year. We're including most of the visuals that El Kabong uses in live performance, making them available on the internet to anyone who wants to play live visuals or study how we put these animations together.

Why do you call Touch a new artform?

Touch is unlike conventional VJ projections which play bits of existing video. Touch is fully synthesized on the spot in 2D and 3D, making it more flexible, exciting and unpredictable. It is unlike a traditional video game because it's not designed to score points, collect bounty, chase and kill. Touch offers a creative approach where the only objective is to make an appealing visual image, and where you can take your time to experiment and craft your surroundings.

Touch differs from other media like film, TV and video because the outcome is never predetermined and always lies in the hands of the user who is at the controls. Touch is similar to painting - you might craft still images in Touch by painting with moving brushes that drop "paint" on the canvas - but it's more like a fluid painting that you're continually guiding and that is never fixed or finished. We envision Touch's fluid images viewed on large-screen displays on walls integrated in living spaces.

Touch is a new artform that could be described as real-time digital image synthesis, performed live. Throw together an inexpensive personal computer with a 3D graphics card running TouchPlayer and a connection to the internet, and you become part of a collaborative networked environment where works of art are continually created, shared, dissected and reassembled.

By providing the technological framework and by giving artists the option to have their work sampled, we're accelerating the process by which new graphic forms get created, disseminated and consumed. Just as sampling in the audio realm has revolutionized music making, so too is visual sampling leading us to fascinating new areas of aesthetic exploration and forcing us to confront questions about authorship, authenticity and intent.

How is it different from common animation?

You don't have to build it frame-by-frame through key-framing, and you are not simply playing back a pre-canned thing. You are performing it live. And it's not someone in a studio making it for you. It's you performing it. Touch is a creative medium that uses music as an inspiring point of departure.

Why is Touch101 directed at the electronic music culture?

Performing visuals live in front of an audience is very demanding of a software product - it must work right, it must run smoothly, and it must do amazing new things. The electronic music culture is technology-savy and appreciates innovation, and the music styles lend themselves to improvised visuals. After each time we perform, we go back to our studio with more ideas and we make many improvements. Plus, I love the music.

How did you come up with this idea?

I've been making computer graphics tools for the past 20 years and have also been following the developments in experimental film and art during that time.
There's spontaneity in making sounds, but almost none in making visual images. I saw that Derivative's technology running on today's common computers could bring the spontaneity to visuals, something the music world has been craving for.

Greg modeling an SGI Indigo2 on a demo pedestal in the alley after an all-nite Tribe Magazine party in 1996. "We borrowed this $40,000 baby from SGI for an important 'trade show event'."

Who designs the graphics of El Kabong?

El Kabong graphics are made in two stages. First, an animator uses TouchDesigner to model, texture and light a new animation, or synthesizer (synth) as we call it, and they hook up some controls so someone else can easily play and perform it. The animator designs it so there are enough controls to make the synth versatile and amusing.

In the second stage, other people get the synths and perform them using a mouse, pen or these control boxes. The two stages are like the music producer and the DJ. One makes the raw tracks, the other performs and mixes it. And like in music, it's the performer that gets all the credit.

How are DJs involved in this?

DJs work with us to add visuals to their set of music. But many of them want to make visuals themselves. They are looking for a tool like Touch that can make visuals that are as rhythmic as the music that accompanies it. Using Touch is similar to making and mixing music, but different in that you're doing it with live 3D graphics.

What DJs have you worked with?

We have been fortunate enough to come up with visuals for some of the great influences of house and techno including Danny Tenaglia, Derrick May, Armand van Helden, Bad Boy Bill and Mark Farina.

Who can use the software?

It's designed so anyone can use it. We've adapted and re-packaged the same special effects technology that's used in Hollywood for feature films like The Matrix, X-Men, Titanic and the Grinch, and we bring it to your desktop or laptop over the web.

How do you expect it to spread?

Touch artists will use our derivativeinc.com web site to post their interactive animations for public access. On the other side of the world, on the same day, others will download the artwork, play it, and make variations on it. Derivative's online catalog is structured to share and exchange artworks.

How far have people been pushing this technology?

One guy, Dave Robert hooked Touch up to living plants in a garden and generated visuals based on the plants' electrical reactions. You can use Touch to control machines. Some students at art schools in Japan are now making interactive exhibitions using Touch.

What is the long-term effect of this technology?

Touch is a VJ tool, but it is equally an educational tool - it spans art and science. For instance, you can explore how heat flows through a thunderstorm, or look at how a jet engine works. Using Touch you can explore the math and science that you tried to avoid in school, but by using Touch, you can learn it in an inspiring way that sticks.

In 5 years, where do you see this going?

You will see millions of people expressing their ideas, moods and feelings through the synthesis of visuals and sound that Touch offers. There will be many styles of visuals that will come and go, just like music and clothing go through fashion cycles. Like music, pen and movement, Touch visuals are another way of materializing one's ideas and impulses.

See the video interview and more behind-the-scenes at El Kabong.